IMPORTANT: Editing XviD AVI, downloaded clips, etc

[Deleted]

I'm sorry, I don't mean to ask stupid questions... I just need something cleared up a little:

When you say don't use MPEG2, it's not the same thing as MPEG Streamclip? I am starting my first FCP project and everything I read so far said I should edit clips in MPEG Streamclip and then import into FCP. Is that right?

[Elvira]

MPEG Streamclip is a converter program—like Avidemux or VirtualDubMod—used to convert to different types of video files, like DV MOV, H.264 MP4, etc. In the case of preparing to edit in Final Cut, you want to covert everything to DV MOV, and that's where MPEG Streamclip is used.

There's a trend in vidding circles to convert their DVD files (.vob) to XviD AVI, and edit with them. But the tutorial explains why that's a really bad idea. Editing with the file type MPEG-2 is also a bad idea, but if you're using Final Cut, trying to import an MPEG-2 file just gives you lower quality and no audio, so you won't get very far if you try to edit with MPEG-2.

So to get past my roundabout and long-winded way of explaining: MPEG Streamclip is a program used to convert files. MPEG-2 is a type of video file (which is not meant to work really well in video editor programs like Final Cut and others).

[zetaminor]

Hey there, Azuremonkey. ;D

There is no such thing as a stupid question. It's only stupid to not ask a question if you have one. Ask away, any time.

Understanding Codecs for editing is one of the first bumps in the road and trips many vidders up.

MPEG Streamclip is a program that you can use to open video files and convert them to a different Compression Codec. Others are Avidemux and Virtual Dub Mod.

MPEG2 is the name of a kind of video encoding, or compression. MPEG2 is specifically a high quality but lossy type of compression. It's almost exactly the same as the kind of file you rip from a DVD.

Other kinds of lossy, compressed files are the kind you typically download. They're usually XviD, DivX, MTK, OGG, and MPEG4. They are referred to as "Distribution Codecs", because they're meant for sharing and playing on the internet.

These lossy codecs are great for uploading, sharing, and downloading because they're small and fast. They're not good for editing, though, for way too many reasons to list easily here. Elvira has a great analogy in the first post of this thread:

When you edit in a compressed format like XviD, not every frame in the video is complete—so it's "fan folded," as the author says here:

"Your canvas is now "fan folded" like the expanding part of an accordian

You may now only see the edges of the folds - You may NOT see inside the folds

You are now trying to paint a full picture based only on being able to see those edges."

The information in the file is like a fan or accordion that unfolds as it plays and refolds as the part of the video you've already watched goes by.

The files are missing huge amounts of information your editor needs to be able to edit. It will stress your processor and your editing software to use them, and you will wind up with errors, crashes, slow processing and playback, effects not working properly, clips not cliping and sticking properly and bad quality of image.

That's not to say you can't edit with them, but you just shouldn't. If you have been, and it's been working fine so far, and you don't feel you need a change just now, then keep doing what you're happy with. ;D

Some well-made Distribution Encodes are more stable and have less quality loss than others, it just depends on who made the file. I can't speak to how FC will react to them, though, since I don't use it. Yet...

But, you will run into those errors eventually and now you'll know why and what to do to get around it.

If you want to head it off at the pass now, you can open your file in MPEG Streamclip or one of the other, similar programs and rip clips from it that you will want to use for your Vid.

If you do this, then encode them with a high-quality Codec that is made for Editing - such as DV MOV. Then put those in your FC and edit with them. ;D You'll get fantastic quality and stable, easy to work with clips!

Elvira has a tutorial Here for making DV MOVs from Streamclip. It also works, I think, for other kinds of files.

I also have a few tutorials on other methods, but they won't work for a MAC OS, unfotunately. Streamclip is great, though, and works for MAC. It's the fastest and easiest program, very versatile and user-friendly. ;D

Always feel free to ask questions if you need to! Hope I didn't confuse you more... I do that sometimes alot.

[Deleted]

Hey there, Azuremonkey. ;D

There is no such thing as a stupid question. It's only stupid to not ask a question if you have one. Ask away, any time.

Oh, good, because I'm sure I'll have lots of questions before I finish this first vid in FCP!!

Understanding Codecs for editing is one of the first bumps in the road and trips many vidders up.

Yes. I was hung up there for a while and still am. I like definites: "use .dv, that's the right one" or something like that. And I felt like that was what came through reading all of these tutorials and following the appropriate links. So, thanks for that!!

If you want to head it off at the pass now, you can open your file in MPEG Streamclip or one of the other, similar programs and rip clips from it that you will want to use for your Vid.

If you do this, then encode them with a high-quality Codec that is made for Editing - such as DV MOV. Then put those in your FC and edit with them. ;D You'll get fantastic quality and stable, easy to work with clips!

Elvira has a tutorial Here for making DV MOVs from Streamclip. It also works, I think, for other kinds of files.

I also have a few tutorials on other methods, but they won't work for a MAC OS, unfotunately. Streamclip is great, though, and works for MAC. It's the fastest and easiest program, very versatile and user-friendly. ;D

Always feel free to ask questions if you need to! Hope I didn't confuse you more... I do that sometimes alot.

So to get past my roundabout and long-winded way of explaining: MPEG Streamclip is a program used to convert files. MPEG-2 is a type of video file (which is not meant to work really well in video editor programs like Final Cut and others).

I totally get it now!! OK, I'd read that .dv is the best code to use. And following the step-by-step instructions, I used VirtualDub to converted my movie file in MPEG Streamclip into a .dv file. *wipes forehead*

(Look at me go, Ma! I'm practically a read vidder!! Thank you for your help.

Since I have you here, my next question is about making clips.

In WMM, once you import the movie file, it automatically makes the clips for you. In one way good, and in another, not so much. One I moved the original movie file, all the clips were gone and I'd have to start over. ANd if I deleted the movie file, all the clips were gone. And the next time I needed that movie or clips, I'd have to start all over again. Very frustrating and time-consuming.

In FCP, when I imported the movie file, it stayed as one big file and I was sure that wasn't the right way to go, since in all the tutorials and manuals, they talk about clips. But I couldn't fully understand how clips were made. Does FCP do it? Did I have to manually do it in FCP and if so, where was the "cut" button?

It was all very confusing. I think I figured out that I should make the clips in MPEG Streamclip. So I did. Very tedious, but good, because I named my clips what I wanted them to be! And saved them in one folder and also on the back-up hard drive so I have them, like, forever, yay!!!

Then (here's where my question really is) imported those clips into FCP. Which is how I've been making my vid. Is this the right method? Or, at least, will this work? And is there a better method?

[Elvira]

You can edit .dv files, but the tutorials also instruct to convert to MOV with the DV codec. Either will work okay, but I like DV MOV (MOV with the DV codec) because it is not so restrictive with frame rate. But either will do.

Actually, almost all video editors, including FCP and FCE, rely on you keeping your source files (in this case, DV MOV files you've converted from .vob files) intact and in the same place on your hard drive. If you move them, Final Cut will ask you to re-locate them. If you delete them, you are out of luck.

iMovie 6 actually does keep all imported files stored in the iMovie project file, so no matter what happens, as long as you have your iMovie project file, you have all the files safe and sound. (Sometimes an iMovie project file can get to be several GB in length, and that's just for a fan video! I imagine a longer video would take up a HUGE amount of disk space!) I think the iMovie 6 (and iMovie 5, etc) way is pretty good in its own way, because you never have to worry about losing a file, and there's no confusion there.

I think I'm understanding your question about "one big file." This is something that most higher level video editors do (and even iMovie does it too). You import your clip (however long it may be) and then you make "sub clips" (there are Final Cut tutorials which show how to do this, and I touch upon it in my Final Cut for newbies thread). The WMM way of automatically splitting up your video into shorter pieces is not really done in professional editing. It's easier in a way, but I have to admit that because I started making videos with mainly Final Cut and iMovie, when I first saw what WMM did (trim clips in arbitrary ways) it drove me nuts! HATED it! I wanted to make those decisions for myself.

Anyway, once you get used to making subclips, it'll become easier for you. Just give yourself time!

[zetaminor]

In FCP, when I imported the movie file, it stayed as one big file and I was sure that wasn't the right way to go, since in all the tutorials and manuals, they talk about clips. But I couldn't fully understand how clips were made. Does FCP do it? Did I have to manually do it in FCP and if so, where was the "cut" button?

Then (here's where my question really is) imported those clips into FCP. Which is how I've been making my vid. Is this the right method? Or, at least, will this work? And is there a better method?

As far as FC, I really have no idea, except that you should be using files saved as DV MOV with a Mac, as Elvira says.

But as to work flow... That's really a personal preference and you should do what you're comfortable with.

But, the high quality files for editing are usually quite large. Trying to manage a bunch of those to edit a vid is tough. Plus a whole movie or series of TV Episodes converted into DV MOV is probably going to take up a huge amount of space pretty quickly - and as Elvira mentions, if you use them to edit, you can't move them later without a bunch of hassle.

What a lot of people do, because it just helps simplify things, is keep the original, source file (usually a DVD VOB or a TV Episode or Movie you DLed in a Distribution Codec) and use that to take small sections that you want to use specifically for your Vid. Save those in the high-quality file type (DV MOV) in a specific folder for that movie or episode on your back-up hard drive. Then you have a library you can keep and use for anything, and never have to move it.

This workflow will save you Hard Drive space in the long run. It also makes the vid easier to edit, since you don't have all this extra footage hanging around doing nothing and taking up workspace.

It sounds like you've already done most of that. Great! Any video editor can rip small sections (or subclips) from a file, I'm sure that FC can, though I can't tell you how. It's just setting in and out points, then telling your editor to save (or export) that section as a certain file type. But, if you're getting clips from a downloaded source, you should use MPEG Streamclip. I didn't think Virtual Dub or Virtual Dub Mod could work on a Mac OS?

Not everyone does it though, and you should do what you're comfortable with.

Actually I remember when AE was working on learning WMM. I heard about that feature... I didn't think it sounded very good at all. Not enough control about where the clips start and end. I like being able to clip my own.

It sounds like you're well on your way on your own! Awesome, I can't wait to see what you're working on.